Haff Tyres Rims and Spacers

edited March 2021 in TECHNICAL
Hi, we have a Haflinger on non genuine 13" steel rims. 12" original I understand. 
A: These rims do fit but are a pressed steel, such that when tighening the wheel nuts they dont clamp the rim fully. Is this a known issue and do you run a space to get a better fitment?
B: Can anyone recomend a good (predominatly) Offroad tyre that is still road legal. I think there are some Panda 4x4 remoulds from Italy that look OK.  So I could not go the ATV route.
C: I have heard Panda 4x4 tyes and rims should fit the std Haffi hub, anyone have experiance with this. 
Thanks guys. ;)


  • For info wheels currently on it are 13x4.5" Rims. Running 155xR13 80 tyres. To be honest this Haffi that has been messed about with so I would be far from surprised if the wheels are not ideal. 
    But if it can run this style of 13" rim, then ebay has some "Ziarelli TRAC 145/80 R13 79S Tyres For Panda 4X4" 

  • There are three major things to look at:- the first being the holes in the rims being designed for larger studs than those used on a Haf. Then there is the "dish" for the nuts possibly being a different shape. Finally the centre hole of the rim on an original rim fits exactly on to the centre of the hub - in other words the centre of the hub takes most of the LOAD from the Haf to the rim and the studs are used purely to allow rotational forces to be delivered to the tyres.
    Check that the hole on your rims actually fits the Hub centre - most likely the hole on the rim is too small and that is why your rims are not sitting flat on the hubs. Do NOT forget the aluminium "Washer" that goes on the hub first, then the rim - that "washer" helps stop the rims from chewing up the aluminium Brake hubs and reduces the risk of pulling the studs through the brake hubs.
    The studs can be replaced for larger ones but that is quite a critical / not easily done task.
    The original nuts "should" allow you to centre the studs with in the holes on the rims if the centre hole actually allows the rim to mount flush to the brake hub.

    The 13" rims if they have the 98 x 4 stud pattern and correct centre hole size will work well if the total circumference of the wheel is within about 5% of the original 12" wheels circumference.
    That is not to say other sizes won't work, but the original engine's output was matched to that size wheel. Larger wheels will slow acceleration / reduce torque and increase top speed (by a small margin before the engine runs out of power / rpm). Conversely, smaller circumference wheels will increase acceleration / increase torque and reduce top speed as the engine will run out of useable revs.

    All in all, the 13" rims you have, as long as they fit correctly will work. The tyres you have listed above will work well off-road but not so well on road. If the Remould job is a good one, then not a problem on a HAf, you'll never over heat them. If the remould is bad - then obviously they are more likely to fail. 

    How are you planning to use your Haflinger?

  • Thanks thats good info, I'll have a better look at the fitment. There certainly is not any aluminium spacer/washer between the drum/hub housing and rim...so those have been lost at some point.  I'll need to look up a picture/part and see what we can machine up to suit. 
    Agree, the stud's nut and the rim are not a good match so I may need to look at conical washers for each stud to resolve that. 
    The Haf is to be used as bit of a chainsaws truck around our woodland... and have been maybe thinking of doing a local 4x4 day just for fun, so road use is going to be just popping up to the local pub on the odd weekend. :)
    Its by no means a 'original' haff in that the top metalwork framework is a recreation so we are not talking about an unmolested historical example..it'll live on doing a bit of work and may some play.    :)
  • Pictures! Put some in the gallery. Do you have the exploded parts book? If so have a look at the pictures of the hubs and see what the aluminium washer disc looks like.

  • Thanks, Yes have the parts book and that washer spacer makes sense. I'll have to make some up.  I assume these are steel and maybe around 5mm thick and are a good fit to the hub center? 

  • Nope, As far as I remember - aluminium and about a 1mm thick - without going out and taking a wheel off I can't give an exact thickness. I'll try to do that on Saturday if no one else bothers to let you know before then. Sorry, won't get an opportunity before then.

  • No problems at all. Certainly dont worry, I've got plenty of bits to sort yet before its propperly on the road.  I found this list of car that use 4 x 98mm PCD rims too.

  • edited March 2021
    The spacers on my Haff are cad plated steel, probably not original parts. Certainly fairly thin e.g. less than 5mm. It occurs to me that if you are having your spacers made up you could include a spigot on the middle so the inner diameter of your non-standard wheels fits the spigot, then the inner diameter of your new spacers fits the original spigot of the Haff's hub.
  • Thanks Gary, yeah I'll look into including a center spigot.
  • They are definitely steel. All my five Hafs have had steel spacers
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